Richard Stallman is the founder of the GNU project and the Free Software Foundation. Builder AU recently caught up with RMS about his achievements, the Free Software movement and his concerns with the US-Australian Free Trade Agreement.

Builder AU: For readers not aware of the GNU operating system or Free Software, can you give them a brief insight into your work?

Richard Stallman: The central idea of the Free Software Movement is that users should have the freedom to share and change the software they use. Free software is software that respects the user's freedom. It's wrong to take this freedom away from other people, wrong to tempt users into being helpless and divided. All software should be free, so that all computer users have freedom.

When I reached these conclusions, around 1983, the actual situation was just the opposite. All the operating systems for modern computers were proprietary: you had to sign a nondisclosure agreement, a promise not to share with your community, just to get the binaries, and ordinary people could not get the source code at all. The first step in becoming a computer user was to betray the whole world.

Looking at the bleak prospect of life under that antisocial system, I said no. I could have escaped from it by not using computers, but I wanted to fight back, not just run away. So I decided to develop a free software operating system if it was the last thing I did. I decided to make it a Unix-like operating system, for technical reasons, and named it GNU. GNU is a recursive acronym (programmers' humour) that stands for GNU's Not Unix. Since I began GNU development, on 5 Jan 1984, thousands of developers have contributed to GNU.

During the subsequent years we developed many system components, and two licences, the GNU GPL and the GNU Lesser GPL. In 1991, GNU was nearly complete, lacking only a kernel. The kernel Linux, written by Linus Torvalds in 1991, became free software in 1992 when Torvalds adopted the GNU GPL as the license for it. At that point, people combined GNU and Linux, producing a complete runnable free operating system, the GNU/Linux system. (The whole system is often called "Linux", but that's a confusion; Linux is the kernel only.)

If you would like to help the GNU Project by programming, please visit savannah.gnu.org and look at the task list. If you'd like to join the Free Software Foundation, visit member.fsf.org. You can also help by organising a free software user group, or an activist organisation to promote free software, in your area.

You have been attributed for starting quite a few notable and important initiatives in your career. What are you currently focused on?

My work, in general, is to manage the FSF and spread the philosophy of free software and help lead the Free Software Movement. This year, one of my priorities is the fight against software patents in the European Union. I'm not the leader of that campaign, but I am trying to help by giving many speeches throughout Europe on this issue.

What is the update on HURD?

The GNU HURD is a "herd" of GNU server programs that run on top of a microkernel. Together, the HURD and the microkernel are the kernel of GNU, the part that corresponds to the kernel of Unix.

The HURD is not ready for production use; it is not reliable enough. About a year ago, the HURD developers decided they need to switch from the Mach microkernel to another microkernel, L4. That is a big job, and is still ongoing.

At present, the practical way to use the GNU system is with Linux as the kernel.

What first attracted you to the world of programming and computers?

I found the idea of computers fascinating from the first moment I heard about them. But it was not until age 10 or so, in summer camp, that I first came across the manual for a programming language. No computer was available, and I had no jobs to do with one if I had had one, but I felt compelled to write programs anyway. I wrote them on paper.

You clearly point out in many interviews and articles you write that you don't associate free software with the open source movement. Why is that?

The Free Software Movement holds that software users morally deserve the freedom to run, study, change, and redistribute the software they use. The term "open source" was coined, in 1998, to encourage free and not-quite-free software while leading attention away from the ethical foundations of free software. The rhetoric of "open source" presents the issue solely as a matter of practical convenience, not as a matter of freedom and cooperation. It does not say software *should* be open source, it just recommends a certain "development model" saying it usually leads to "better" software.

Open source proponents and the BSA disagree about how to produce "better" software, but they agree about what "better" means: powerful, reliable, convenient, and cheap. In the Free Software Movement, we have different basic values: we want to live in freedom in a community. Better software is software that we are free to share and change.

If a person persuaded of open source ideas comes across a powerful, reliable, non-free program, she may think it admirable. "I'm surprised they were able to do this without open source," she might say, "But I can't deny that it works well." When a free software advocate looks at the same thing, she will see a nasty, unethical license. "I don't care how 'powerful' it is, if it takes away my freedom," she will say. "Let's start writing the free replacement now!"

How successful do you think you have been in your campaign for freedom from proprietary software licence?

We have not liberated all of Cyberspace yet, and we have a long way yet to go, but we've made a good start.

What has been the biggest inhibitor?

The biggest obstacle is the ideological pressure for people to judge important issues in terms of short-term practical values alone. If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape.

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Comments

1

anon - 22/07/04

"All software should be free,.." - no thanks. I need to sell mine. It helps pay the rent.

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2

anonymous - 22/07/04

"There is so much free software now that I mostly don't try to keep track of it. There are over 3000 packages listed in the Free Software Directory."

Theres a lot more here http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ and more still for a variety of OS and license conditions here http://www.sourceforge.org/

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3

Frank Costanza - 22/07/04

Thank goodness we have visionaries like Richard Stallman who are working to protect us from the evils of proprietary software, designed to control our lives and limit of freedoms.

The IT industry and the Internet itself would be vastly different if Stallman had not persued his dream to bring freedom to computer users.

We are all greatly indebted to Richard and the FSF for their great work.

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4

Meski - 22/07/04

I'm disappointed they didn't ask him any hard questions, like GPL vs BSD license issues. See this for a strart, or google on stallman bsd gpl.

http://static.userland.com/userLandDiscussArchive/msg019889.html

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5

Ham Ra Dio - 22/07/04

""All software should be free,.." - no thanks. I need to sell mine. It helps pay the rent."

You are confusing free as in beer and free as in speech, which is what is advocated.

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6

anonymous - 23/07/04

"I'm disappointed they didn't ask him any hard questions, like GPL vs BSD license issues."

BSD based operating systems and the BSD license havn't exactly enjoyed as much press as GPL/Linux. Perhaps the questions reflect a lack of knowledge on the part of the interviewer.

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7

Shawn Carson - 23/07/04

If all software was free, i would have to go back to frying chicken at a fast food restaurant. Fortunately, I make good money developing software. Our software is the best of its type, if the source code got out, the company would lose its golden egg laying goose, and i would be back to frying chicken. Programmers that get money from mom and dad can talk about free software. But, suppose you have no money, no relatives to get money from, and no government handouts. I bet Stallman never had a real job. Haning out at a university and getting grant money to tinker with software is no different than living at moms house and building model trains.

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8

Jane Doe - 23/07/04

"If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape."

Wait, didn't he just say that this was the difference between the free and open source software movements? That free software adherents take the long-term view toward personal rights and freedoms?

So does that mean the FSF is really just trying to "manoeuver [the computing world] into a trap" with their propaganda against proprietary software?

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9

Jane Doe - 23/07/04

"If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape."

Wait, didn't he just say that this was the difference between the free and open source software movements? That free software adherents take the long-term view toward personal rights and freedoms?

So does that mean the FSF is really just trying to "manoeuver [the computing world] into a trap" with their propaganda against proprietary software?

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10

Henrique Dante - 23/07/04

Re: If all software was free, i would have to go back to frying chicken at a fast food restaurant.

> "I bet Stallman never had a real job. Haning out at a university and getting grant money to tinker with software is no different than living at moms house and building model trains."

Greetings,

I think he was an AI researcher at MIT, so he
probably got money with AI algorithms. But in the
80's he actually got money with... well, free
software ! The point is that free software is
free as in freedom, not free as in beer.

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11

Traumzustand - 24/07/04

I think free as in "free speech" and "freedom" needs to be reiterated, as some people just don't seem to get it. You can still sell free software, and make a profit with the sales and the support. Look at Redhat, Mandrake, MySQL, etc. before implying that all free software programmers live in their parents' basement and don't have a real job.

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12

Richard Stallman - 14/11/04

Why does the fsf.org cost $120 per year to join?

What about people who believe that all organizations should be free?

Can they join for free?

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12

Richard Stallman - 14/11/04

Why does the fsf.org cost $120 per year to join? What about people who believe that all organizations should be free? ... more

11

Traumzustand - 24/07/04

I think free as in "free speech" and "freedom" needs to be reiterated, as some people just don't seem to get ... more

10

Henrique Dante - 23/07/04

Re: If all software was free, i would have to go back to frying chicken at a fast food restaurant. > "I ... more

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